Guantanamo Bay

[Finbar Bellamy]

I have only one thing to say for right now.

What is America coming to?

Ok, scratch that, I have more to say. Torture, no trial, for allegations of terrorism? That doesn't seem very just or fair at all.

Bush is being hypocritical, attacking other countries for their policies while back home we're not even following the Third Geneva Convention.

Disgusting.

(If this topic is considered too touchy, feel free to delete it, Dirk. I'm just really pissed right now...)

[Chicory Rue]

fearclaw said:

What is America coming to?

What with the Wall Street Journal, the stock market, Ann Coulter, the Haditha incident, yes, Guatanamo, multiple accusations of U.S. troops raping and killing Iraqi civilians (one just last night, in fact- where an Iraqi women was raped, killed, her body burned and her family killed as well), and of course old Dubya in office, I have a better question- what isn't America coming to?

Ugh, don't even get me started on Bush. Of course he's a complete, self-deluded hypocrite- whatever happened to the Non-Proliferation Treaty, I wonder? I mean, the U.S. itself violates the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty by not honoring the Article 6 demand to disarm. Oh, and war on Iraq and not North Korea. What kind of message does that send Muslims, I wonder? Not to mention, let's attack the countries that actually possess weapons of mass destruction.
(hint*coughcough*notIraqhowboutNorthKorea*coughcough*)

I mean, c'mon, get with the program here, if you know what I mean. To quote you, Finbar, absolutely disgusting.

Yeah, who among the non-self-deluded aren't pissed off right now? :-p

((whoops, sorry. Finbar's post sorta set off my ranting instinct. I could go on for hours. ))

[Dirk Thornclaw]

Ooh, I love political discussion. The only problem is that people can get so riled up over differing views I hope everyone's mature enough not to scream and yell if someone has a different opinion.


Well, I was going to reply, but my thoughts are too fragmented for that now - it is 2:30 am, after all

[Typhoon]

I agree with Fin and Rue.

[Flameclaw]

..............

I'm in Australia, so I'll just say that from my view over here, I see a country that not only will, but is dying. I mean, look at the other countries, China for example, is on it's way towards a second Cold War with America... the only difference now is that America won't have the economy to keep up with China.

Anyways, if this pisses you off, then pretend I didn't say that.

[Dirk Thornclaw]

There will be no Cold War between China and America. Between any two nations, for that matter. First-world nations, that is. What probably WILL happen, IMO, is just that China takes over as the world's economic superpower. America's days are numbered, unless they make some radical changes to their economic policies.

Rant time!

The USA is a very Conservative country. At one time, so, too, was the rest of the world. But that was only because we needed extreme Conservatism to counter the Soviet Communism. Soviets were the enemy, remember, and NATO was scared Communism would spread, so they did everything in their power to counter that. Thus, the Western world, led by America, became as right-wing as possible while still being a democracy.

But the world is no longer right-wing. The Red Scare is over. The world has become the very opposite in its ideals. Some countries are now very Socialist, in fact - Canada, for example, and Scandinavia, and Benelux; when compared to America at least.

But America is too used to bullying the world and getting its own way now. As the world changes, America tries desperately to remain the same as before. The UN is left-wing too, so when they vetoed the Iraqi Invasion, America had to resort to doing it on their own while calling the UN playground names. And still, Bush, in all his traditional, Republican glory, does all he can to retain the Old Way of Life, refusing to accept change.

America should not have any right to bully the world until she see to the needs of her own people.

I'm glad the things like this Guantanamo Bay incident, and the Abu Ghraib one, come to light. Maybe after Bush leaves the government can have its much needed reform.

</rant>

Ah, that was fun to write out

[Rinafera Woxwitty III]

Erm, hate to say it, but have you seen the video called "Obsession"? It is a documentary about the Middle East, and the reporters talking about what they witnessed. They even have a video of a mass of Terrorists yelling; Death to America! Death to UK! UK will pay!

Also, they have real footage of an American citzen in Palastine getting dragged out of his car, butcheed to death, dragged throught the streets, and burned. A young Iraqi singer made a music video laughing about 9/11, just to let you know.

Also, the people who claim they were tortured at Guantanamo Bay have NO evidence by scars that they were tortured, or even touched!

Obsession also shows a little todler with a gun saying that he wishes he could shoot Bush, and, that his birthday wish was that America exploded. Another thing, a guy who was praying to Allah(the moon god, not the Christian God) said to his god to destroy America, the Jews, ect.

The Irani people made a TV show showing Jews butchering little boys to make Matza for a Passover Feast. None of that happened, and teenagers in the Middle East are growing up wataching this stuff. So naturally, they hate the UK, America, Jews, another nations.

Truthfully, I have no sympathy for them. They are messing with the best military in the entire world(thats a fact) and they will get what they are asking for. If Bush plays his cards right, we'll be out of the Middle East and the Terrorist Threat will be practically over.

Thankyou.

[Dirk Thornclaw]

Yes, people in the Middle East hate America. We know all this. But this hatred is not unprovoked.

Modern Islamic terrorism began not against America, but against Israel. Why? Because America butted into their land showing no regard for their wishes, and gave a slice of it to the Jews. A nice gesture...except for the fact the Palestinians were there first. Did America care? They cared about the Jews (supposedly), but what about the native Muslims living there, with their own land and their own lives?

So for awhile it was Israel vs The Middle East. Israel only survived because America and the West lent their support to them. Is it any wonder the Islamic community got a little upset? First they have their land taken from them, then they get shafted by the Western World. Hell, if I was an Islamic leader, I'd be pretty pissed too.

Eventually, of course, they got tired of attacking the Jews, and tried to take on the source of the problems, the West. And when no one turned an ear to their plight, they got more and more violent.

So of course there's a terrorist threat in the world. America helped create the problem. Just as they funded and trained Osama Bin Laden to fight the Soviets. But, just like Osama, their creation turned on them, and now they're left to clean up the mess.

[Finbar Bellamy]

Yes, people in the Middle East hate America. We know all this. But this hatred is not unprovoked.

Exactly.

Erksta, I will not say that what you said is untrue. But think about it for a second. They hate us. So that gives us a right to torture them while Bush goes on about liberty and justice.

I'm sick of hearing all this crap about Islamic people. There are Islamic terrorists who hate us, true. Many Islamic people hate us as well, true. BUT ALMOST EVERY RELIGION, AT ONE POINT OR ANOTHER, has committed acts of violence to try to eradicate another race or religion. At this point, it's the Muslims who take the spotlight.